Ron Paul Speech After Iowa Results


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Mike Swanson
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Ron Paul Speech After Iowa Results
teclontz
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Joined: 11/14/2010 - 11:49
If you didn't know any better

you'd almost not know he was a lunatic.

Donkey Nuggets
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Tim

I'm curious why you say that? I've heard others say that, but I don't get that feeling at all. Now, if you listen to the "lesser republican" smear campaigns you may get that impression, but he has been an honest and outspoken supporter of the constitution for years. Nothing he aays suggests insanity to me.

But i'd love to hear your ounterpoints. FWIW my mother who is an avid FOX news watcher, feels the same way. You tuning into fox news lately?:)

Thanks in advance for your reply. Lance

PS. And folks, if Tim does respond, don't give him grief. Everybody is entitled to an opinion...ALA "freedom of speech".

teclontz
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Lance

Lance,

Ron Paul is an idealist. Nothing wrong with idealism, unless you confuse it with reality. It's the shade of difference between "I always think I'm right" (everyone does) and "I think I'm always right" (which only fools do).

When Paul is hit with a between the eyes reduction to absurdity question, he forges right ahead without batting an eye.

Personally, I lean libertarian, so he especially annoys me.

Take his claim that as PRESIDENT he would reduce spending by a trillion dollars. Exactly how does he propose to do so, especially since the constitution gives the budget to the congress.

Or perhaps his claims that a suicide terrorist mindset can be disuaded by the illogic of mutually assured destruction. You can't stop someone who WANTS to die by waiting for him to realize he's going to die. THAT'S THE IDEA.

Again, I lean libertarian, but trying to forge an independent position will never get you true libertarianism, because if you gave libertarians all the power they'd figure SOMETHING ELSE to spend the money on, because the problem is human nature, not which party you belong to.

So, enter the constitution. The POINT of the constitution is that human nature is flawed and will stumble into totalitarianism if you let it. The Senate would become an aristocracy. The Presidency would become a monarchy. The Supreme Court would become an oligarchy. The House would become anarchy. All the framers did was to set up competition so that the anarchists and oligarchs would keep the aristocrats and monarchs in check.

Although we've sidestepped this in the creation of political parties (effectively negating the checks and balances of the separation of powers), the answer is also absurdly simple:

You don't create a new party that will have the same fallible human pitfalls. Instead, you use the two parties to check and balance each other in the way the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial branches were originally designed to do. In other words, instead of seeking some miraculous 35% libertarian plurality to appear out of nowhere, all you really need is 3-5% of the electorate committed to splitting their congressional and presidential votes between the two parties so that we NEVER have all Republicans or all Democrats in control. The POINT of the constitution was to keep ANY group in check by the other groups. If Paul were a true constitutionalist he'd get that. He doesn't.

Instead he lives in a fantasy world in which he introduces 620 bills and only has 1 bill pass (something innocuous about approving the sale of a building).

He also lives in a fantasy world that HIS interpretation is flawless and that both parties are simultaneously wrong all the time. Uh, no. They are SUPPOSED to be wrong (humans are), but they are supposed to be wrong IN DIFFERENT THINGS. Hence, Democrats can control Republican obsessions and Republicans can control Democrat obsessions.

All Paul wants is his own obsessions, and he refuses to acknowledge that there can be any problem to them.

One of the things that people have attacked Gingrich over is that he points out that both parties err. Well, of course they do. Only a partisan hack thinks his party can't be flawed. Unfortunately for him, the nomination process is all about partisan hackery.

But even that is better than quackery.

I agree with 99% of the points Paul makes. I also disagree with 99% of the conclusions he derives from those points. It's really a sad caricature of idealism.

Divided government is what the framers of the constitution wanted.

Parties have created voting blocks in which divided government temporarily breaks down if you put one party in control of everything.

Again, the solution is to pit the PARTIES against each other by splitting your vote. Then we would return to the original framework in which the BRANCHES are pitted against each other.

Tim

Donkey Nuggets
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Tim

We currently have a split party ran government and they can't get anything done. They are more concerned with their own benefits and even moreso beholden to the special interests that funded their campaigns. I believe "checks and balances" are your main thesis, but GRIDLOCK AND CORRUPTION is not what was intended by the constitution and that is the state we find ourselves in. Politicians say what is popular and frankly lie all the time. When called to the floor on their lies, they "manage it" through various means including the bought and paid for media. Paul took a close third in Iowa. Yet, they only talk about the other candidates including Bachman and Perry and frankly totally ignore that fact. The more you look at it, the candidate with the most money and charm who can stab his opponents with some vicious rumors wins. It is not right and not what our forefathers intended when they wrote the constitution.

I do agree that humans have fallable human pitfalls and that is why we need a free thinker like Paul. He undoubtedly would take us down a road of more pain initially, but we'd get through it in a much shorter period. We would also have much less government which is also an intention of the constitution. I don't want, nor do I need the government to wipe my ass or tell me how I should go about it. I do not want socialism beyond the common sense needs of any society (such as social security and medicare for the elderly). Ron Paul supports these ideas and while not infallable himself, I also do not think he believes himself to be "flawless".

The constitution was to protect against corruption and over time we have allowed our guiding document and scriptures to be trampelled upon. Yes, we have gotten away from our Christian teachings as well. Separation of church and state did not mean we should be ashamed of our core beliefs. Simply put, it is a sad state we find ourselves in. Ron Paul would be a change from the norm. I admit, we may not be ready for such a drastic change, but we have to start somewhere. Politics as usual are clearly not working.

Thanks for your reply! It is much appreciated. Lance.

teclontz
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Joined: 11/14/2010 - 11:49
Good discussion

Thanks Lance, you're always a good person to talk to.

About gridlock... that's what you get for a while, but after a while they get bored of getting nothing done and start to cross the hall toward each other.

Quite frankly, I think both parties should be able to veto anything they don't like so that nothing really outlandish gets crammed down our throat.

But that's just me...

walter1836
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Lance

We need more government not less. No we don't need somebody to wipe our ass but we do need controls on greed and corruption. Less government is what got us into our present mess. I want clean air so that I don't have to be told that it is not safe to go outside today. I want clean water and uncontaminated food. There is a need for government and government regulations but not when it intrudes on individual decisions. I don' find anything wrong with a consumer protection agency that makes lenders produce documents that are easy to understand and to see that banks and credit card companies cannot charge loan sharking fees.

Love to here the other opinions.

Walter

Wullow
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Joined: 11/15/2010 - 11:04
More government?

Walter, aren't you really saying that we need more regulation, not more government? "Government" is a vast, bloated, wasteful bureaucracy that ruins most of what it touches.

In principle, I support regulation, if applied sparingly, reasonably, and fairly. Ah, there's the rub. Our government does a fine job of regulating you and me and the dry-cleaner down the street. But it fails remarkably at regulating big business, the mega-companies most responsible for our ills.

Actually, "fails" is too generous a description of what our corrupt regulators have been up to all these years. Creating more regulations won't change that; it will only create more regulators.

Wullow
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Hi, Tim

This isn't the place to get into a political debate, so I won't refute your arguments point by point. But I would like to comment on your post.

Your assertions about Ron Paul are hyperbole: exaggerations. If you deny that, let's ask Professor Clifton to review your choice of wording.

Without explaining exactly why Dr. Paul is a lunatic whose conclusions are 99% wrong, you argue fervently for your own "simple" solution: the good old two-party system, as if we somehow can reform it. Who is the idealist here? How many decades have the Republicrats been in power? What is so flawed about the constitutional checks and balances that we need "obsessive" politicians to check and balance each other in order to save the union?

Tell us exactly how Dr. Paul has misinterpreted the Constitution? I don't recall any language in that document about "groups" and political parties.

teclontz
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Wullow

Wullow,

My opinions about Ron Paul are my opinions. As I said, I agree with 99% of the constitutional points he cites, even though I disagree with his conclusions. The constitution IS for limited government -- but through checks and balances, and reservations to the states those powers not explicitly defined for the federal government.

But I've watched videos of the man speculating that 9/11 was an inside job, and that Hamas was invented by the Israelis to counter-act Fatah. And I've seen him in debates arguing that Iran isn't trying to have a nuclear bomb, but that they SHOULD so they could get more respect.

That's lunacy.

I also cited his belief that mutually assured destruction is somehow a deterrent to suicide martyrdom idealogy.

That's lunacy.

The constitution was created to separate powers in order to save us from lunatics like Paul.

Thank God for the constitution, because the very document Paul cites so freely is the only thing protecting us from him.

Tim

Wullow
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Joined: 11/15/2010 - 11:04
Dismiss me as a lunatic, then.

Now that you've acknowledged that you have only opinions, I don't mind sharing that I happen to think 9/11 was an inside job. So, Tim, you can ignore the rest of this post.

For anyone else who is still interested, here is an article that refutes much of what Tim is spooked by:

http://lewrockwell.com/block/block194.html

As for Paul's position on MAD, I haven't seen any evidence that he urges MAD as a US strategy. This nasty acronym is a product of the psychopathic cold-war game theorists, who focused on global doom scenarios.

My take is that Ron is simply acknowledging a fact of life: If everyone knows you're armed, they'll think twice before attacking you. That's also a basis of the second amendment, and it's the reason that we US citizens have the ultimate say in what happens in this land where we live.

hucknuts
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Joined: 11/15/2010 - 09:00
He is the only sane one out

He is the only sane one out of the bunch of idots running.

kaibo888 (not verified)
... it fails remarkably at

... it fails remarkably at regulating big business, the mega-companies most responsible for our ills.

This statement is one of the cruxes for sure. What you need is the rebirth of a JFK statesman. Romney is dangerous. Newt has been gnewted. Wat-a-bama (what a bummer) Obama got in. Ron Paul is radical but the nearest thing you got to a JFK.

Just for a laugh; Looks like they want Putin out of Russia - maybe you guys can bring him in as a clandestine leader. After all, he jailed the cartel's former oil tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky and then used profits from the country to reduce the nation's debt. He then reportedly told the cartel to take a hike and obtained loans on future supply from a Socialist-Democratic China. And this is the man that the Russians love to hate now. Little do they know how much good he did. Just goes to prove most constituents within a country have their heads up someones bum in front of them and just follow blindly. He also offered diplomatic solutions to Japan and joint venture offers on disputed island territories - possibly a great statesman!

Sack the Fed!

Thomas Jefferson argued that the United States needed a publicly-owned central bank so that European monarchs and aristocrats could not use the printing of money to control the affairs of the new nation.

Jefferson extolled,

“A country which expects to remain ignorant and free...expects that which has never been and that which will never be. There is scarcely a King in a hundred who would not, if he could, follow the example of Pharaoh - get first all the people’s money, then all their lands and then make them and their children servants forever...banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies. Already they have raised up a money aristocracy.”

Jefferson watched as the Euro-banking conspiracy to control the United States unfolded, weighing in,

“Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of the day, but a series of oppressions begun at a distinguished period, unalterable through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing us to slavery”.

So what's next - Obama has more financial backing than Romney from the same Wall St cartel.

Is that correct? If Ron Paul got in (likely impossible) they would attempt an alien abduction of the said gentleman if he tried to oust the Feds.

House Banking Committee Chairman Louis McFadden (D-NY) said of the Great Depression,(1933)

“It was no accident. It was a carefully contrived occurrence... The international bankers sought to bring about a condition of despair here so they might emerge as rulers of us all”.

What's next - currently under 'cabal' engineered design - a contrived 'greater depression' - beginning with oil in 2012 reaching as high as 200 USD a barrel. Keep your eye on oil because it will hit the roof this year in my estimate. I might add, I called this one before Christmas; now many analytical reports have confirmed the same view. I run on 'inconsistent' instinct not professional insight.

Watch out, the FOMC is meeting late January this month. PMs are perhaps on shaky ground folks when they meet, as seen in late 2011.

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